By New York Times
Following is a transcript of President-elect Donald J. Trump’s interview on Tuesday with reporters, editors and opinion columnists from The New York Times. The transcription was prepared by Liam Stack, Jonah Engel Bromwich, Karen Workman and Tim Herrera of The Times.
ARTHUR
SULZBERGER Jr., publisher of The New York Times:
Thank you very much for joining us. And I want
to reaffirm this is on the record.
DONALD J.
TRUMP, President-elect of the United States:
O.K.
SULZBERGER: All right, so we’re clear. We had a
very nice meeting in the Churchill Room. You’re
a Churchill fan, I hear?
TRUMP: I
am, I am.
SULZBERGER: There’s a photo of the great man
behind you.
TRUMP:
There was a big thing about the bust that was
removed out of the Oval Office.
SULZBERGER: I heard you’re thinking of putting
it back.
TRUMP: I
am, indeed. I am.
SULZBERGER: Wonderful. So we’ve got a good
collection here from our newsroom and editorial
and our columnists. I just want to say we had a
good, quiet, but useful and well-meaning
conversation in there. So I appreciate that very
much.
TRUMP: I
appreciate it, too.
SULZBERGER: I thought maybe I’d start this off
by asking if you have anything you would like to
start this off with before we move to the
easiest questions you’re going to get this
administration
TRUMP: O.K. Well,
I just appreciate the meeting and I have great respect
for The New York Times. Tremendous respect. It’s very
special. Always has been very special. I think I’ve been
treated very rough. It’s well out there that I’ve been
treated extremely unfairly in a sense, in a true sense.
I wouldn’t only complain about The Times. I would say
The Times was about the roughest of all. You could make
the case The Washington Post was bad, but every once in
a while I’d actually get a good article. Not often,
Dean, but every once in awhile.
Look, I have great
respect for The Times, and I’d like to turn it around. I
think it would make the job I am doing much easier.
We’re working very hard. We have great people coming in.
I think you’ll be very impressed with the names. We’ll
be announcing some very shortly.
Everybody wanted
to do this. People are giving up tremendous careers in
order to be subject to you folks and subject to a lot of
other folks. But they’re giving up a lot. I mean some
are giving up tremendous businesses in order to sit for
four or maybe eight or whatever the period of time is.
But I think we’re going to see some tremendous talent,
tremendous talent coming in. We have many people for
every job. I mean no matter what the job is, we have
many incredible people. I think, Reince, you can sort of
just confirm that. The quality of the people is very
good.
REINCE PRIEBUS,
Mr. Trump’s choice for chief of staff: [inaudible]
TRUMP: We’re
trying very hard to get the best people. Not necessarily
people that will be the most politically correct people,
because that hasn’t been working. So we have really
experts in the field. Some are known and some are not
known, but they’re known within their field as being the
best. That’s very important to me.
You know, I’ve
been given a great honor. It’s been very tough. It’s
been 18 months of brutality in a true sense, but we won
it. We won it pretty big. The final numbers are coming
out. Or I guess they’re coming out. Michigan’s just
being confirmed. But the numbers are coming out far
beyond what anybody’s wildest expectation was. I don’t
know if it was us, I mean, we were seeing the kind of
crowds and kind of, everything, the kind of enthusiasm
we were getting from the people.
As you probably
know, I did many, many speeches that last four-week
period. I was just telling Arthur that I went around and
did speeches in the pretty much 11 different places,
that were, the massive crowds we were getting. If we had
a stadium that held — and most of you, many of you were
there — that held 20,000 people, we’d have 15,000 people
outside that couldn’t get in.
So we came up with
a good system — we put up the big screens outside with a
very good loudspeaker system and very few people left. I
would do, during the last month, two or three a day.
That’s a lot. Because that’s not easy when you have big
crowds. Those speeches, that’s not an easy way of life,
doing three a day. Then I said the last two days, I want
to do six and seven. And I’m not sure anybody has ever
done that. But we did six and we did seven and the last
one ended at 1 o’clock in the morning in Michigan.
And we had 31,000
people, 17,000 or 18,000 inside and the rest outside.
This massive place in Grand Rapids, I guess. And it was
an incredible thing. And I left saying: ‘How do we lose
Michigan? I don’t think we can lose Michigan.’
And the reason I
did that, it was set up only a little while before —
because we heard that day that Hillary was hearing that
they’re going to lose Michigan, which hasn’t been lost
in 38 years. Or something. But 38 years. And they didn’t
want to lose Michigan. So they went out along with
President Obama and Michelle, Bill and Hillary, they
went to Michigan late that, sort of late afternoon and I
said, ‘Let’s go to Michigan.’
It wasn’t on the
schedule. So I finished up in New Hampshire and at 10
o’clock I went to Michigan. We got there at 12 o’clock.
We started speaking around 12:45, actually, and we had
31,000 people and I said, really, I mean, there are
things happening. But we saw it everywhere.
So we felt very
good. we had great numbers. And we thought we’re going
to win. We thought we were going to win Florida. We
thought we were going to win North Carolina. We did
easily, pretty easily. We thought strongly we were going
to win Pennsylvania. The problem is nobody had won it
and it was known, as you know, the great state that
always got away. Every Republican thought they were
going to win Pennsylvania for 38 years and they just
couldn’t win it.
And I thought we
were going to win it. And we won it, we won it, you
know, relatively easily, we won it by a number of
points. Florida we won by 180,000 — was that the number,
180?
PRIEBUS:
[inaudible]
TRUMP: More than
180,000 voted, and votes are still coming in from the
military, which we are getting about 85 percent of.
So we won that by
a lot of votes and, you know, we had a great victory. We
had a great victory. I think it would have been easier
because I see every once in awhile somebody says, ‘Well,
the popular vote.’ Well, the popular vote would have
been a lot easier, but it’s a whole different campaign.
I would have been in California, I would have been in
Texas, Florida and New York, and we wouldn’t have gone
anywhere else. Which is, I mean I’d rather do the
popular vote from the standpoint — I’d think we’d do
actually as well or better — it’s a whole different
campaign. It’s like, if you’re a golfer, it’s like match
play versus stroke play. It’s a whole different game.
But I think the
popular vote would have been easier in a true sense
because you’d go to a few places. I think that’s the
genius of the Electoral College. I was never a fan of
the Electoral College until now.
SULZBERGER: Until
now.
[laughter]
TRUMP: Until now.
I guess now I like it for two reasons. What it does do
is it gets you out to see states that you’ll never see
otherwise. It’s very interesting. Like Maine. I went to
Maine four times. I went to Maine 2 for one, because
everybody was saying you can get to 269 but there is no
path to 270. We learned that was false because we ended
up with what, three-something.
PRIEBUS: I’ve got
to get, we’ve got to get Michigan in.
TRUMP: But there
is no path to 270, you have to get the one in Maine, so
we kept going back to Maine and we did get the one in
Maine. We kept going to Maine 2, and we went to a lot of
states that you wouldn’t spend a lot of time in and it
does get you — we actually went to about 22 states,
whereas if you’re going for popular vote, you’d probably
go to four, or three, it could be three. You wouldn’t
leave New York. You’d stay in New York and you’d stay in
California. So there’s a certain genius about it. And I
like it either way. But it’s sort of interesting.
But we had an
amazing period of time. I got to know the country, we
have a great country, we’re a great, great people, and
the enthusiasm was really incredible. The Los Angeles
Times had a poll which was interesting because I was
always up in that poll. They had something that is, I
guess, a modern-day technique in polling, it was called
enthusiasm. They added an enthusiasm factor and my
people had great enthusiasm, and Hillary’s people didn’t
have enthusiasm. And in the end she didn’t get the
African-American vote and we ended up close to 15
points, as you know. We started off at one, we ended up
with almost 15. And more importantly, a lot of people
didn’t show up, because the African-American community
liked me. They liked what I was saying.
So they didn’t
necessarily vote for me, but they didn’t show up, which
was a big problem that she had. I ended up doing very
well with women, which was — which I never understood
why I was doing poorly, because we’d go to the rallies
and we’d have so many women holding up signs, “Women for
Trump.” But I kept reading polls saying that I’m not
doing well with women. I think whoever is doing it here
would say that we did very well with women, especially
certain women.
DEAN BAQUET,
executive editor of The New York Times: As you describe
it, you did do something really remarkable. You
energized a lot of people in the country who really
wanted change in Washington. But along with that — and
this is going to create a tricky thing for you — you
also energized presumably a smaller number of people who
were evidenced at the alt-right convention in Washington
this weekend. Who have a very …
TRUMP: I just saw
that today.
BAQUET: So, I’d
love to hear you talk about how you’re going to manage
that group of people who actually may not be the larger
group but who have an expectation for you and are angry
about the country and its — along racial lines. My first
question is, do you feel like you said things that
energized them in particular, and how are you going to
manage that?
TRUMP: I don’t
think so, Dean. First of all, I don’t want to energize
the group. I’m not looking to energize them. I don’t
want to energize the group, and I disavow the group.
They, again, I don’t know if it’s reporting or whatever.
I don’t know where they were four years ago, and where
they were for Romney and McCain and all of the other
people that ran, so I just don’t know, I had nothing to
compare it to.
But it’s not a
group I want to energize, and if they are energized I
want to look into it and find out why.
What we do want to
do is we want to bring the country together, because the
country is very, very divided, and that’s one thing I
did see, big league. It’s very, very divided, and I’m
going to work very hard to bring the country together.
I mean, I’m
somebody that really has gotten along with people over
the years. It was interesting, my wife, I went to a big
event about two years ago. Just after I started thinking
about politics.
And we’re walking
in and some people were cheering and some people were
booing, and she said, you know, ‘People have never booed
for you.’
I’ve never had a
person boo me, and all of a sudden people are booing me.
She said, that’s never happened before. And, it’s
politics. You know, all of a sudden they think I’m going
to be running for office, and I’m a Republican, let’s
say. So it’s something that I had never experienced
before and I said, ‘Those people are booing,’ and she
said, ‘Yup.’ They’d never booed before. But now they
boo. You know, it was a group and another group was
going the opposite.
No, I want to
bring the country together. It’s very important to me.
We’re in a very divided country. In many ways divided.
BAQUET: So I’m
going to do that thing that executive editors get to do
which is to invite reporters to jump in and ask
questions.
MAGGIE HABERMAN,
political reporter: I’ll start, thank you, Dean. Mr.
President, I’d like to thank you for being here. This
morning, Kellyanne Conway talked about not prosecuting
Hillary Clinton. We were hoping you could talk about
exactly what that means — does that mean just the
emails, or the emails and the foundation, and how you
came to that decision.
TRUMP: Well, there
was a report that somebody said that I’m not enthused
about it. Look, I want to move forward, I don’t want to
move back. And I don’t want to hurt the Clintons. I
really don’t.
She went through a
lot. And suffered greatly in many different ways. And I
am not looking to hurt them at all. The campaign was
vicious. They say it was the most vicious primary and
the most vicious campaign. I guess, added together, it
was definitely the most vicious; probably, I assume you
sold a lot of newspapers.
[laughter]
I would imagine. I
would imagine. I’m just telling you, Maggie, I’m not
looking to hurt them. I think they’ve been through a
lot. They’ve gone through a lot.
I’m really looking
… I think we have to get the focus of the country into
looking forward.
SULZBERGER: If I
could interject, we had a good conversation there, you
and I, and it was off the record, but there was nothing
secret, just wanted to make sure. The idea of looking
forward was one of the themes that you were saying. That
we need to now get past the election, right?
MATTHEW PURDY,
deputy managing editor: So you’re definitively taking
that off the table? The investigation?
TRUMP: No, but the
question was asked.
PURDY: About the
emails and the foundation?
TRUMP: No, no, but
it’s just not something that I feel very strongly about.
I feel very strongly about health care. I feel very
strongly about an immigration bill that I think even the
people in this room can be happy. You know, you’ve been
talking about immigration bills for 50 years and
nothing’s ever happened.
I feel very
strongly about an immigration bill that’s fair and just
and a lot of other things. There are a lot of things I
feel strongly about. I’m not looking to look back and go
through this. This was a very painful period. This was a
very painful election with all of the email things and
all of the foundation things and all of the everything
that they went through and the whole country went
through. This was a very painful period of time. I read
recently where it was, it was, they’re saying, they used
to say it was Lincoln against whoever and none of us
were there to see it. And there aren’t a lot of
recordings of that, right?
[laughter]
But the fact is
that there were some pretty vicious elections; they say
this was, this was the most.
They say it was
definitely the most vicious primary. And I think it’s
very important to look forward.
CAROLYN RYAN,
senior editor for politics: Do you think it would
disappoint your supporters who seemed very animated by
the idea of accountability in the Clintons? What would
you say to them?
TRUMP: I don’t
think they will be disappointed. I think I will explain
it, that we have to, in many ways save our country.
Because our
country’s really in bad, big trouble. We have a lot of
trouble. A lot of problems. And one of the big problems,
I talk about, divisiveness. I think that a lot of people
will appreciate … I’m not doing it for that reason. I’m
doing it because it’s time to go in a different
direction. There was a lot of pain, and I think that the
people that supported me with such enthusiasm, where
they will show up at 1 in the morning to hear a speech.
It was actually
Election Day, they showed up at, so that was essentially
Election Day. Yeah, I think they’d understand very
completely.
THOMAS L.
FRIEDMAN, opinion columnist: Mr. President-elect, can I
ask a question? One of the issues that you actually were
very careful not to speak about during the campaign, and
haven’t spoken about yet, is one very near and dear to
my heart, the whole issue of climate change, the Paris
agreement, how you’ll approach it. You own some of the
most beautiful links golf courses in the world …
[laughter, cross
talk]
TRUMP: [laughing]
I read your article. Some will be even better because
actually like Doral is a little bit off … so it’ll be
perfect. [inaudible] He doesn’t say that. He just says
that the ones that are near the water will be gone, but
Doral will be in great shape.
[laughter]
FRIEDMAN: But it’s
really important to me, and I think to a lot of our
readers, to know where you’re going to go with this. I
don’t think anyone objects to, you know, doing all
forms of energy. But are you going to take America out
of the world’s lead of confronting climate change?
TRUMP: I’m looking
at it very closely, Tom. I’ll tell you what. I have an
open mind to it. We’re going to look very carefully.
It’s one issue that’s interesting because there are few
things where there’s more division than climate change.
You don’t tend to hear this, but there are people on the
other side of that issue who are, think, don’t even …
SULZBERGER: We do
hear it.
FRIEDMAN: I was on
‘Squawk Box’ with Joe Kernen this morning, so I got an
earful of it.
[laughter]
TRUMP: Joe is one
of them. But a lot of smart people disagree with you. I
have a very open mind. And I’m going to study a lot of
the things that happened on it and we’re going to look
at it very carefully. But I have an open mind.
SULZBERGER: Well,
since we’re living on an island, sir, I want to thank
you for having an open mind. We saw what these storms
are now doing, right? We’ve seen it personally. Straight
up.
FRIEDMAN: But you
have an open mind on this?
TRUMP: I do have
an open mind. And we’ve had storms always, Arthur.
SULZBERGER: Not
like this.
TRUMP: You know
the hottest day ever was in 1890-something, 98. You
know, you can make lots of cases for different views. I
have a totally open mind.
My uncle was for
35 years a professor at M.I.T. He was a great engineer,
scientist. He was a great guy. And he was … a long time
ago, he had feelings — this was a long time ago — he had
feelings on this subject. It’s a very complex subject.
I’m not sure anybody is ever going to really know. I
know we have, they say they have science on one side but
then they also have those horrible emails that were sent
between the scientists. Where was that, in Geneva or
wherever five years ago? Terrible. Where they got
caught, you know, so you see that and you say, what’s
this all about. I absolutely have an open mind. I will
tell you this: Clean air is vitally important. Clean
water, crystal clean water is vitally important. Safety
is vitally important.
And you know, you
mentioned a lot of the courses. I have some great,
great, very successful golf courses. I’ve received so
many environmental awards for the way I’ve done, you
know. I’ve done a tremendous amount of work where I’ve
received tremendous numbers. Sometimes I’ll say I’m
actually an environmentalist and people will smile in
some cases and other people that know me understand
that’s true. Open mind.
JAMES BENNET,
editorial page editor: When you say an open mind, you
mean you’re just not sure whether human activity causes
climate change? Do you think human activity is or isn’t
connected?
TRUMP: I think
right now … well, I think there is some connectivity.
There is some, something. It depends on how much. It
also depends on how much it’s going to cost our
companies. You have to understand, our companies are
noncompetitive right now.
They’re really
largely noncompetitive. About four weeks ago, I started
adding a certain little sentence into a lot of my
speeches, that we’ve lost 70,000 factories since W.
Bush. 70,000. When I first looked at the number, I said:
‘That must be a typo. It can’t be 70, you can’t have
70,000, you wouldn’t think you have 70,000 factories
here.’ And it wasn’t a typo, it’s right. We’ve lost
70,000 factories.
We’re not a
competitive nation with other nations anymore. We have
to make ourselves competitive. We’re not competitive for
a lot of reasons.
That’s becoming
more and more of the reason. Because a lot of these
countries that we do business with, they make deals with
our president, or whoever, and then they don’t adhere to
the deals, you know that. And it’s much less expensive
for their companies to produce products. So I’m going to
be studying that very hard, and I think I have a very
big voice in it. And I think my voice is listened to,
especially by people that don’t believe in it. And we’ll
let you know.
FRIEDMAN: I’d hate
to see Royal Aberdeen underwater.
TRUMP: The North
Sea, that could be, that’s a good one, right?
ELISABETH
BUMILLER, Washington bureau chief: I just wanted to
follow up on the question you were asked about not
pursuing any investigations into Hillary Clinton. Did
you mean both the email investigation and the foundation
investigation — you will not pursue either one of those?
TRUMP: Yeah, look,
you know we’ll have people that do things but my
inclination would be, for whatever power I have on the
matter, is to say let’s go forward. This has been looked
at for so long. Ad nauseam. Let’s go forward. And you
know, you could also make the case that some good work
was done in the foundation and they could have made
mistakes, etc. etc. I think it’s time, I think it’s time
for people to say let’s go and solve some of the
problems that we have, which are massive problems and,
you know, I do think that they’ve gone through a lot. I
think losing is going through a lot. It was a tough, it
was a very tough evening for her. I think losing is
going through a lot. So, for whatever it’s worth, my, my
attitude is strongly we have to go forward, we have so
many different problems to solve, I don’t think we have
to delve back in the past. I also think that would be a
very divisive, well I think it would be very divisive,
you know I’m talking about bringing together, and then
they go into all sorts of stuff, I think it would be
very, very divisive for the country.
SULZBERGER: I
agree, I think speaking not as a journalist now, it’s
very healthy. There, and then we’re going to go
MICHAEL D. SHEAR,
White House correspondent: Mr. Trump, Mike Shear. I
cover the White House, covering your administration …
TRUMP: See ya
there.
[laughter]
SHEAR: Just one
quick clarification on the climate change, do you intend
to, as you said, pull out of the Paris Climate …
TRUMP: I’m going
to take a look at it.
SHEAR
[interrupts]: And if the reaction from foreign leaders
is to slap tariffs on American goods to offset the
carbon that the United States had pledged to reduce, is
that O.K. with you? And then the second question is on
your sort of mixing of your global business interests
and the presidency. There’s already, even just in the
10, two weeks you’ve been president-elect, instances
where you’ve met with your Indian business partners …
TRUMP: Sure.
SHEAR: You’ve
talked about the impact of the wind farms on your golf
course. People, experts who are lawyers and ethics
experts, say that all of that is totally inappropriate,
so I guess the question for you is, what do you see as
the appropriate structure for keeping those two things
separate, and are there any lines that you think you
won’t want to cross once you’re in the White House?
TRUMP: O.K. First
of all, on countries. I think that countries will not do
that to us. I don’t think if they’re run by a person
that understands leadership and negotiation they’re in
no position to do that to us, no matter what I do.
They’re in no position to do that to us, and that won’t
happen, but I’m going to take a look at it. A very
serious look. I want to also see how much this is
costing, you know, what’s the cost to it, and I’ll be
talking to you folks in the not-too-distant future about
it, having to do with what just took place.
As far as the, you
know, potential conflict of interests, though, I mean I
know that from the standpoint, the law is totally on my
side, meaning, the president can’t have a conflict of
interest. That’s been reported very widely. Despite
that, I don’t want there to be a conflict of interest
anyway. And the laws, the president can’t. And I
understand why the president can’t have a conflict of
interest now because everything a president does in some
ways is like a conflict of interest, but I have, I’ve
built a very great company and it’s a big company and
it’s all over the world. People are starting to see,
when they look at all these different jobs, like in
India and other things, number one, a job like that
builds great relationships with the people of India, so
it’s all good. But I have to say, the partners come in,
they’re very, very successful people. They come in,
they’d say, they said, ‘Would it be possible to have a
picture?’ Actually, my children are working on that job.
So I can say to them, Arthur, ‘I don’t want to have a
picture,’ or, I can take a picture. I mean, I think it’s
wonderful to take a picture. I’m fine with a picture.
But if it were up to some people, I would never, ever
see my daughter Ivanka again. That would be like you
never seeing your son again. That wouldn’t be good. That
wouldn’t be good. But I’d never, ever see my daughter
Ivanka.
UNKNOWN: That
means you’d have to make Ivanka deputy President, you
know.
TRUMP: I know, I
know, yeah. [room laughs] Well, I couldn’t do that
either. I can’t, that can’t work. I can’t do anything, I
would never see my, I guess the only son I’d be allowed
to see, at least for a little while, would be Barron,
because he’s 10. But, but, so there has to be
[unintelligible]. It’s a very interesting case.
UNKNOWN: You could
sell your company though, right? With all due respect,
you could sell your company and then …
TRUMP: Well …
UNKNOWN: And then
you could see them all the time.
TRUMP: That’s a
very hard thing to do, you know what, because I have
real estate. I have real estate all over the world,
which now people are understanding. When I filed my
forms with the federal election, people said, ‘Wow
that’s really a big company, that’s a big company.’ It
really is big, it’s diverse, it’s all over the world.
It’s a great company with great assets. I think that,
you know, selling real estate isn’t like selling stock.
Selling real estate is much different, it’s in a much
different world. I’d say this, and I mean this and I
said it on “60 Minutes” the other night: My company is
so unimportant to me relative to what I’m doing, ’cause
I don’t need money, I don’t need anything, and by the
way, I’m very under-leveraged, I have a very small
percentage of my money in debt, very very small
percentage of my money in debt, in fact, banks have said
‘We’d like to loan you money, we’d like to give you any
amount of money.’ I’ve been there before, I’ve had it
both ways, I’ve been over-levered, I’ve been
under-levered and, especially as you get older,
under-levered is much better.
UNKNOWN: Mr.
President-elect …
TRUMP: Just a
minute, because it’s an important question. I don’t care
about my company. I mean, if a partner comes in from
India or if a partner comes in from Canada, where we did
a beautiful big building that just opened, and they want
to take a picture and come into my office, and my kids
come in and, I originally made the deal with these
people, I mean what am I going to say? I’m not going to
talk to you, I’m not going to take pictures? You have
to, you know, on a human basis, you take pictures. But I
just want to say that I am given the right to do
something so important in terms of so many of the issues
we discussed, in terms of health care, in terms of so
many different things. I don’t care about my company. It
doesn’t matter. My kids run it. They’ll say I have a
conflict because we just opened a beautiful hotel on
Pennsylvania Avenue, so every time somebody stays at
that hotel, if they stay because I’m president, I guess
you could say it’s a conflict of interest. It’s a
conflict of interest, but again, I’m not going to have
anything to do with the hotel, and they may very well. I
mean it could be that occupancy at that hotel will be
because, psychologically, occupancy at that hotel will
be probably a more valuable asset now than it was
before, O.K.? The brand is certainly a hotter brand than
it was before. I can’t help that, but I don’t care. I
said on “60 Minutes”: I don’t care. Because it doesn’t
matter. The only thing that matters to me is running our
country.
MICHAEL BARBARO,
political reporter: Mr. President-elect, can I press you
a little further on what structures you would put in
place to keep the presidency and the company separate
and to avoid things that, for example, were reported in
The Times in the past 24 hours about meeting with
leaders of Brexit about wind farms …
TRUMP: About
meeting with who?
BARBARO: Leaders
of Brexit about wind farms that might interfere with the
views of your golf course and how to keep, what
structures, can you talk about that meeting, by the way?
TRUMP: Was I
involved with the wind farms recently? Or, not that I
know of. I mean, I have a problem with wind …
BARBARO: But you
brought it up in the meeting, didn’t you?
TRUMP: Which
meeting? I don’t know. I might have.
BARBARO: With
leaders of Brexit.
MANY VOICES: With
Farage.
TRUMP: Oh, I see.
I might have brought it up. But not having to do with
me, just I mean, the wind is a very deceiving thing.
First of all, we don’t make the windmills in the United
States. They’re made in Germany and Japan. They’re made
out of massive amounts of steel, which goes into the
atmosphere, whether it’s in our country or not, it goes
into the atmosphere. The windmills kill birds and the
windmills need massive subsidies. In other words, we’re
subsidizing wind mills all over this country. I mean,
for the most part they don’t work. I don’t think they
work at all without subsidy, and that bothers me, and
they kill all the birds. You go to a windmill, you know
in California they have the, what is it? The golden
eagle? And they’re like, if you shoot a golden eagle,
they go to jail for five years and yet they kill them
by, they actually have to get permits that they’re only
allowed to kill 30 or something in one year. The
windmills are devastating to the bird population, O.K.
With that being said, there’s a place for them. But they
do need subsidy. So, if I talk negatively. I’ve been
saying the same thing for years about you know, the wind
industry. I wouldn’t want to subsidize it. Some
environmentalists agree with me very much because of all
of the things I just said, including the birds, and some
don’t. But it’s hard to explain. I don’t care about
anything having to do with anything having to do with
anything other than the country.
BARBARO: But the
structures, just to be clear, that’s the question. How
do you formalize the separation of these things so that
there is not a question of whether or not you as
president …
TRUMP: O.K.
BARBARO: … are
trying to influence something, like wind farms?
TRUMP: O.K., I
don’t want to influence anything, because it’s not that,
it’s not that important to me. It’s hard to explain.
BARBARO: Yes, but
the structures?
TRUMP: Now,
according to the law, see I figured there’s something
where you put something in this massive trust and
there’s also — nothing is written. In other words, in
theory, I can be president of the United States and run
my business 100 percent, sign checks on my business,
which I am phasing out of very rapidly, you know, I sign
checks, I’m the old-fashioned type. I like to sign
checks so I know what is going on as opposed to pressing
a computer button, boom, and thousands of checks are
automatically sent. It keeps, it tells me what’s going
on a little bit and it tells contractors that I’m
watching. But I am phasing that out now, and handing
that to Eric Trump and Don Trump and Ivanka Trump for
the most part, and some of my executives, so that’s
happening right now.
But in theory I
could run my business perfectly, and then run the
country perfectly. And there’s never been a case like
this where somebody’s had, like, if you look at other
people of wealth, they didn’t have this kind of asset
and this kind of wealth, frankly. It’s just a different
thing.
But there is no —
I assumed that you’d have to set up some type of trust
or whatever and you know. And I was actually a little
bit surprised to see it. So in theory I don’t have to do
anything. But I would like to do something. I would like
to try and formalize something, because I don’t care
about my business.
Doral is going to
run very nice. We own this incredible place in Miami. We
own many incredible places, including Turnberry, I guess
you heard. There’s one guy that does — when I say
Turnberry, you know what that is, right. Do a little
[inaudible]. But they’re going to run well, we have good
managers, they’re going to run really well.
So I don’t have to
do anything, but I want to do something if I can. If
there is something.
BARBARO: Can you
promise us when you decide exactly what that is, you’ll
come tell The New York Times about it?
[laughter]
TRUMP: I will.
I’ve started it already.
SULZBERGER: One of
our great salesmen, by the way.
TRUMP: I can see
that. I’ve started it already by, I mean, I’ve greatly
reduced the check-signing and the business. I’ve greatly
reduced meetings with contractors, meetings with
different people that, you know, I’ve also started by —
’cause I’ve said over the last two years, once I decided
I wanted to run, I don’t want to build anything. ’Cause
building, like for instance, we built the post office,
you’ll be happy to hear, ahead of schedule and under
budget. Substantially ahead of schedule. Almost two
years ago of schedule. But ahead of schedule, under
budget, and it’s a terrific place. That’s the hotel on
Pennsylvania.
FRIEDMAN: Just so
you know, General Electric has a big wind turbine
factory in South Carolina. Just so you know.
TRUMP: Well that’s
good. But most of ‘em are made in Germany, most of ‘em
are made, you know, Siemens and the Chinese are making
most of them.
[cross talk]
TRUMP: They may
assemble — if you check, I think you’ll find that the,
it’s delivered there and they do most of the assembly.
JULIE HIRSCHFELD
DAVIS, White House correspondent: Mr. President-elect —
I’m sorry I entered late, but I did want to ask you
about …
BAQUET: You should
introduce yourself.
DAVIS: I’m Julie
Davis, one of the White House correspondents.
TRUMP: Hi, Julie.
DAVIS: I apologize
for my delayed flight. I wanted to ask you about
personnel. They say personnel is policy.
TRUMP: I can’t
quite hear.
DAVIS: Personnel.
TRUMP: Personnel.
DAVIS: You hired
Steve Bannon to be the chief strategist for you in the
White House. He is a hero of the alt-right. He’s been
described by some as racist and anti-Semitic. I wonder
what message you think you have sent by elevating him to
that position and what you would say to those who feel
like that indicates something about the kind of country
you prefer and the government you’ll run.
TRUMP: Um, I’ve
known Steve Bannon a long time. If I thought he was a
racist, or alt-right, or any of the things that we can,
you know, the terms we can use, I wouldn’t even think
about hiring him. First of all, I’m the one that makes
the decision, not Steve Bannon or anybody else. And
Kellyanne will tell you that.
[laughter]
KELLYANE CONWAY:
100 percent.
TRUMP: And if he
said something to me that, in terms of his views, or
that I thought were inappropriate or bad, number one I
wouldn’t do anything, and number two, he would have to
be gone. But I know many people that know him, and in
fact, he’s actually getting some very good press from a
lot of the people that know him, and people that are on
the left. But Steve went to Harvard, he was a, you know,
he was very successful, he was a Naval officer, he’s, I
think he’s very, very, you know, sadly, really, I think
it’s very hard on him. I think he’s having a hard time
with it. Because it’s not him. It’s not him.
I’ve known him for
a long time. He’s a very, very smart guy. I think he was
with Goldman Sachs on top of everything else.
UNKNOWN: What do
you make of the website he ran, Breitbart?
TRUMP: The which?
UNKNOWN:
Breitbart.
TRUMP: Well,
Breitbart’s different. Breitbart cover things, I mean
like The New York Times covers things. I mean, I could
say that Arthur is alt-right because they covered an
alt-right story.
SULZBERGER:
[laughing] I am, I am. I’ll take whatever you say. I am
always right, but I’m not alt-right.
[laughter, cross
talk]
TRUMP: The New
York Times covers a lot of stories that are, you know,
rough stories. And you know, they have covered some of
these things, but The New York Times covers a lot of
these things also. It’s just a newspaper, essentially.
It’s a newspaper. I know the guy, he’s a decent guy,
he’s a very smart guy. He’s done a good job. He hasn’t
been with me that long. You know he really came in after
the primaries. I had already won the primaries. And if I
thought that his views were in that category, I would
immediately let him go. And I’ll tell you why. In many
respects I think his views are actually on the other
side of what a lot of people might think.
DAVIS: But you are
aware, sir, with all due respect, that African-Americans
and Jews and many folks who disagree with the coverage
of Breitbart and the slant that Breitbart brings to the
news view him that way, aren’t you?
TRUMP: Yeah, well
Breitbart, first of all, is just a publication. And, you
know, they cover stories like you cover stories. Now,
they are certainly a much more conservative paper, to
put it mildly, than The New York Times. But Breitbart
really is a news organization that’s become quite
successful, and it’s got readers and it does cover
subjects that are on the right, but it covers subjects
on the left also. I mean it’s a pretty big, it’s a
pretty big thing. And he helped build it into a pretty
successful news organization.
Now, I’ll tell you
what, I know him very well. I will say this, and I will
say this, if I thought that strongly, if I thought that
he was doing anything, or had any ideas that were
different than the ideas that you would think, I would
ask him very politely to leave. But in the meantime, I
think he’s been treated very unfairly.
It’s very
interesting ’cause a lot of people are coming to his
defense right now.
PRIEBUS: We have
never experienced a single episode of any of those
accusations. It’s been the total opposite. It’s been a
great team, and it’s just not there. And what the
president-elect is saying is 100 percent true.
[cross talk]
TRUMP: And by the
way, if you see something or get something where you
feel that I’m wrong, and you have some info — I would
love to hear it. You can call me, Arthur can call me, I
would love to hear. The only one who can’t call me is
Maureen [Dowd, opinion columnist]. She treats me too
rough.
I don’t know what
happened to Maureen! She was so good, Gail [Collins,
opinion columnist]. For years she was so good.
[cross talk]
SULZBERGER: As we
all say about Maureen, it’s not your fault, it’s just
your turn.
[laughter]
ROSS DOUTHAT,
opinion columnist: I have a slightly different, but
somewhat Steve Bannon-related question, I guess. It’s
about the future of the Republican Party. You started
out here talking about winning in so many states where
no Republican has won in decades, especially Midwestern
Rust Belt states. And I think many people think that one
of the reasons you won was that you deliberately
campaigned as a different kind of Republican. You had
different things to say on trade, entitlements, foreign
policy, even your daughter Ivanka’s child care plan was
sort of distinctive. And now you’re in a situation where
you’re governing and staffing up an administration with
a Republican Party whose leaders, and Reince, may differ
with me a little on this, but don’t always see
eye-to-eye on those views.
TRUMP: Although
right now they’re loving me.
[laughter]
UNKNOWN: Well,
right now they are.
[cross talk]
TRUMP: Paul Ryan
right now loves me, Mitch McConnell loves me, it’s
amazing how winning can change things. I’ve liked Chuck
Schumer for a long time. I’ve actually, I’ve raised a
lot of money for Chuck and given him a lot of money over
the years. I think I was the first person that ever
contributed to Chuck Schumer. I had a Brooklyn office, a
little office, in a little apartment building in
Brooklyn in Sheepshead Bay where I worked with my
father.
And Chuck Schumer
came in and I gave him, I believe, I don’t know if he’s
willing to admit this, but I believe it was his first
campaign contribution, $500. But Chuck Schumer’s a good
guy. I think we’ll get along very well.
DOUTHAT: I guess
that’s my question is, how much do you expect to be able
to both run an administration and negotiate with a
Republican-led Congress as a different kind of
Republican. And do you worry that you’ll wake up three
years from now and go back to campaigning in the Rust
Belt and people will say, well, he governed more like
Paul Ryan than like Donald Trump.
TRUMP: No, I don’t
worry about that. ’Cause I didn’t need to do this. I was
telling Arthur before: ‘Arthur I didn’t need to do this.
I’m doing this to do a good job.’ That’s what I want to
do, and I think that what happened in the Rust Belt,
they call it the Rust Belt for a reason. If you go
through it, you look back 20 years, they didn’t used to
call it the Rust Belt. You pass factory after factory
after factory that’s empty and rusting. Rust is the good
part, ’cause they’re worse than rusting, they’re falling
down. No, I wouldn’t sacrifice that. To me more
important is taking care of the people that really have
proven to be, to love Donald Trump, as opposed to the
political people. And frankly if the political people
don’t take care of these people, they’re not going to
win and you’re going to end up with maybe a total
different kind of government than what you’re looking at
right now. These people are really angry. They’re smart,
they’re workers, and they’re angry. I call them the
forgotten men and women. And I use that in speeches, I
say they’re the forgotten people — they were totally
forgotten. And we’re going to bring jobs back. We’re
going to bring jobs back, big league. I’ve spoken to so
many companies already, I say, don’t plan on moving your
company, ’cause you’re not going to be able to move your
company and sell us your product. You think you’re going
to just sell it across what will be a strong border, you
know at least we’re going to have a border. But just
don’t plan on it.
And I’ll tell you,
I believe, and you’ll hear announcements over the next
couple of months, but I believe I’ve talked numerous
comp — in four-minute conversations with top people —
numerous companies that have, leaving, or potentially
leaving our country with thousands of jobs.
FRIEDMAN: Are you
worried, though, that those companies will keep their
factories here, but the jobs will be replaced by robots?
TRUMP: They will,
and we’ll make the robots too.
[laughter]
TRUMP: It’s a big
thing, we’ll make the robots too. Right now we don’t
make the robots. We don’t make anything. But we’re going
to, I mean, look, robotics is becoming very big and
we’re going to do that. We’re going to have more
factories. We can’t lose 70,000 factories. Just can’t do
it. We’re going to start making things.
I was honored
yesterday, I got a call from Bill Gates, great call, we
had a great conversation, I got a call from Tim Cook at
Apple, and I said, ‘Tim, you know one of the things that
will be a real achievement for me is when I get Apple to
build a big plant in the United States, or many big
plants in the United States, where instead of going to
China, and going to Vietnam, and going to the places
that you go to, you’re making your product right here.’
He said, ‘I understand that.’ I said: ‘I think we’ll
create the incentives for you, and I think you’re going
to do it. We’re going for a very large tax cut for
corporations, which you’ll be happy about.’ But we’re
going for big tax cuts, we have to get rid of
regulations, regulations are making it impossible.
Whether you’re liberal or conservative, I mean I could
sit down and show you regulations that anybody would
agree are ridiculous. It’s gotten to be a free-for-all.
And companies can’t, they can’t even start up, they
can’t expand, they’re choking.
I tell you, one
thing I would say, so, I’m giving a big tax cut and I’m
giving big regulation cuts, and I’ve seen all of the
small business owners over the United States, and all of
the big business owners, I’ve met so many people. They
are more excited about the regulation cut than about the
tax cut. And I would’ve never said that’s possible,
because the tax cut’s going to be substantial. You know
we have companies leaving our country because the taxes
are too high. But they’re leaving also because of the
regulations. And I would say, of the two, and I would
not have thought this, regulation cuts, substantial
regulation cuts, are more important than, and more
enthusiastically supported, than even the big tax cuts.
UNKNOWN: Mr.
President-elect, I wanted to ask you, there was a
conference this past weekend in Washington of people who
pledged their allegiance to Nazism.
TRUMP: Boy, you
are really into this stuff, huh?
PRIEBUS: I think
we answered that one right off the bat.
UNKNOWN: Are you
going to condemn them?
TRUMP: Of course I
did, of course I did.
PRIEBUS: He
already did.
UNKNOWN: Are you
going to do it right now?
TRUMP: Oh, I see,
maybe you weren’t here. Sure. Would you like me to do it
here? I’ll do it here. Of course I condemn. I disavow
and condemn.
SULZBERGER: We’ll
go with that. I’d like to move to infrastructure,
apologies, and then we’ll go back. Because a lot of the
investment you are talking about, a lot of the jobs you
are talking about — is infrastructure going to be the
core of your first few years?
TRUMP: No, it’s
not the core, but it’s an important factor. We’re going
for a lot of things, between taxes, between regulations,
between health care replacement, we’re going to talk
repeal and replace. ’Cause health care is — you know
people are paying a 100 percent increase and they’re not
even getting anything, the deductibles are so high, you
have deductibles $16,000. So they’re paying all of this
money and they don’t even get health care. So it’s very
important. So there are a lot of things. But
infrastructure, Arthur, is going to be a part of it.
SULZBERGER: It’s
part of jobs, isn’t it?
TRUMP: I don’t
even think it’s a big part of it. It’s going to be a big
number but I think I am doing things that are more
important than infrastructure, but infrastructure is
still a part of it, and we’re talking about a very
large-scale infrastructure bill. And that’s not a very
Republican thing — I didn’t even know that, frankly.
SULZBERGER: It
worked for Franklin Roosevelt.
TRUMP: It didn’t
work for Obama because unfortunately they didn’t spend
the money last time on infrastructure. They spent it on
a lot of other things. You know, nobody can find out
where that last — you know, from a few years ago — where
that money went. And we’re going to make sure it is
spent on infrastructure and roads and highways. I have a
friend, he’s a big trucker, one of the biggest. And he
orders these incredible trucks, the best, I won’t
mention the name but it’s a certain truck company that
makes — they call them the Rolls-Royce of trucks. You
know, the most expensive trucks. And he calls me up
about two months ago and he goes, ‘Man, I’m going to buy
the cheapest trucks I can buy.’ And I said, ‘Why?’ and —
you know, and this is the biggest guy — he goes, ‘My
trucks are coming back, they’re going from New York to
California and they’re all busted up. The highways are
in such bad shape, they’re hitting potholes, they’re
hitting everything.’ He said, ‘I’m not buying these
trucks anymore, I’m going to buy the cheapest stuff and
the strongest tires I can get.’ That’s the exact
expression he used, ‘the cheapest trucks and the
strongest tires.’
We’re hitting so
many bad points, we, you know, I said, ‘So tell me,
you’ve been doing this how long?’ 45 years. He built it
over 45 years. I said, ‘Have you ever seen it like
this?’ He said, ‘The roads have never been like this.’
It’s an interesting …
BAQUET: What did,
what did, I’m curious what Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan
said when you said, ‘I’m going to launch a
multibillion-dollar infrastructure program.’ Are they
reluctant to spend that?
TRUMP: Honestly
right now …
DOUTHAT: Trillion.
Trillion, I think, was the figure.
BAQUET: Because
they would be in the wing of the Republican Party that
would say, ‘That’s great, but you’re not going to be
able to do that and balance the budget.’
TRUMP: Let’s see
if I get it done. Right now they’re in love with me.
O.K.? Four weeks ago they weren’t in love with me. Don’t
forget — if I read The New York Times, and you don’t
have to put this on the record — it can be if you want,
you might not want …
SULZBERGER: You
say if, but you do …
TRUMP: Well, I do
read it. Unfortunately. I would have lived about 20
years longer if I didn’t.
SULZBERGER:
There’s Nixon’s quote right there if you’d love to
reread it —
TRUMP: I know. But
when you look at the different, all the newspapers, I
was going to lose the presidency, I was going to take
the House with me, and the Senate had no chance. It was
going to be the biggest humiliation in the history of
politics in this country. And instead I won the
presidency, easily, and I mean easily — you look at
those states, I had states where I won by 30 and 40
points. I won the presidency easily, I helped numerous
senators — in fact the only senators that didn’t get
elected were two — one up in New Hampshire who refused
to say that she was going to vote for me, who by the way
would love a job in the administration and I said, ‘No,
thank you.’ That’s on the record. This is where I’m
different than a politician — I know what to say, I just
believe it’s sort of interesting.
She’d love to have
a job in the administration, I said, ‘No, thank you.’
She refused to vote for me. And a senator in Nevada who
frankly said, he endorsed me then he unendorsed me, and
he went down like a lead balloon. And then they called
me before the race and said they wanted me to endorse
him and do a big thing and I said, ‘No thank you, good
luck.’ You know, let’s see what happens. I said, off the
record, I hope you lose. Off the record. He was! He was
up by 10 points — you know who I’m talking about.
So, others — if
you look at Missouri, [Senator Roy] Blunt, he was down
five points a few days before the election, he called
for help, I gave him help, and I think I was up like
over 30 points in Missouri. I was leading by a massive
amount, 28 points. I gave him help and he ended up
winning by four points or something. I brought a number
of them. Pennsylvania, brought over the finish line.
Let’s see, we brought Johnson, in, you know, that was a
good one. We brought him over the line in Wisconsin.
Winning Wisconsin was big stuff, that’s something that …
FRIEDMAN: Mr.
President-elect, I came …
TRUMP: So right
now I’m in very good shape, but
FRIEDMAN: I came
here thinking you’d be awed and overwhelmed by this job,
but I feel like you are getting very comfortable with
it.
TRUMP: I feel
comfortable. I feel comfortable. I am awed by the job,
as anybody would be, but I honestly, Tom, I feel so
comfortable and you know it would be, to me, a great
achievement if I could come back here in a year or two
years and say — and have a lot of the folks here say,
‘You’ve done a great job.’ And I don’t mean just a
conservative job, ’cause I’m not talking conservative. I
mean just, we’ve done a good job.
SHEAR: To follow
up on Matt, after you met with President Obama, he
described you to folks as — that you seemed overwhelmed
by what he told you. So I wonder if you are overwhelmed
by the magnitude of the job that you’re about to inherit
and if you can tell us anything more about that
conversation with the president and the apparently
subsequent conversations that you’ve had on the phone
since then. And then maybe talk a little bit about
foreign policy, that’s something we haven’t touched on
here, and whether or not you believe in the kind of
world order — a world order led by America in terms of
having this country underwrite the security and the free
markets of the world, which have been in place for
decades.
TRUMP: Sure. I had
a great meeting with President Obama. I never met him
before. I really liked him a lot. The meeting was
supposed to be 10 minutes, 15 minutes max, because there
were a lot of people waiting outside, for both of us.
And it ended up being — you were there — I guess an
hour-and-a-half meeting, close. And it was a great
chemistry. I think if he said overwhelmed, I don’t think
he meant that in a bad way. I think he meant that it is
a very overwhelming job. But I’m not overwhelmed by it.
You can do things and fix it, I think he meant it that
way. He said very nice things after the meeting and I
said very nice things about him. I really enjoyed my
meeting with him. We have — you know, we come from
different sides of the equation, but it’s nevertheless
something that — I didn’t know if I’d like him. I
probably thought that maybe I wouldn’t, but I did, I did
like him. I really enjoyed him a lot. I’ve spoken to him
since the meeting.
SHEAR: What did
you say to him?
TRUMP: Just a
basic conversation.
I think he’s
looking to do absolutely the right thing for the country
in terms of transition and I really, I’m telling you, we
had a meeting, Arthur, that went for an hour and a half
that could have gone for three or four hours. It was a
great — it was just a very good meeting.
UNKNOWN: Sort of
like this meeting.
[cross talk,
laughter]
TRUMP: He told me
what he thought his, what the biggest problems of the
country were, which I don’t think I should reveal, I
don’t mind if he reveals them. But I was actually
surprised a little bit. But he told me the problems, he
told me things that he considered assets, but he did
tell me what he thought were the biggest problems, in
particular one problem that he thought was a big problem
for the country, which I’d rather have you ask him. But
I really found the meeting to be very good. And I hope
we can have a good — I mean, it doesn’t mean we’re going
to agree on everything, but I hope that we will have a
great long-term relationship. I really liked him a lot
and I’m a little bit surprised I’m telling you that I
really liked him a lot.
Let’s go foreign
policy, sure. Sure.
FRIEDMAN: What do
you see as America’s role in the world? Do you believe
that the role …
TRUMP: That’s such
a big question.
FRIEDMAN: The role
that we played for 50 years as kind of the global
balancer, paying more for things because they were in
our ultimate interest, one hears from you, I sense, is
really shrinking that role.
TRUMP: I don’t
think we should be a nation builder. I think we’ve tried
that. I happen to think that going into Iraq was perhaps
… I mean you could say maybe we could have settled the
civil war, O.K.? I think going into Iraq was one of the
great mistakes in the history of our country. I think
getting out of it — I think we got out of it wrong, then
lots of bad things happened, including the formation of
ISIS. We could have gotten out of it differently.
FRIEDMAN: NATO,
Russia?
TRUMP: I think
going in was a terrible, terrible mistake. Syria, we
have to solve that problem because we are going to just
keep fighting, fighting forever. I have a different view
on Syria than everybody else. Well, not everybody else,
but then a lot of people. I had to listen to [Senator]
Lindsey Graham, who, give me a break. I had to listen to
Lindsey Graham talk about, you know, attacking Syria and
attacking, you know, and it’s like you’re now attacking
Russia, you’re attacking Iran, you’re attacking. And
what are we getting? We’re getting — and what are we
getting? And I have some very definitive, I have some
very strong ideas on Syria. I think what’s happened is a
horrible, horrible thing. To look at the deaths, and I’m
not just talking deaths on our side, which are horrible,
but the deaths — I mean you look at these cities,
Arthur, where they’re totally, they’re rubble, massive
areas, and they say two people were injured. No,
thousands of people have died. O.K. And I think it’s a
shame. And ideally we can get — do something with Syria.
I spoke to Putin, as you know, he called me, essentially
…
UNKNOWN: How do
you see that relationship?
TRUMP: Essentially
everybody called me, all of the major leaders, and most
of them I’ve spoken to.
FRIEDMAN: Will you
have a reset with Russia?
TRUMP: I wouldn’t
use that term after what happened, you know, previously.
I think — I would love to be able to get along with
Russia and I think they’d like to be able to get along
with us. It’s in our mutual interest. And I don’t go in
with any preconceived notion, but I will tell you, I
would say — when they used to say, during the campaign,
Donald Trump loves Putin, Putin loves Donald Trump, I
said, huh, wouldn’t it be nice, I’d say this in front of
thousands of people, wouldn’t it be nice to actually
report what they said, wouldn’t it be nice if we
actually got along with Russia, wouldn’t it be nice if
we went after ISIS together, which is, by the way, aside
from being dangerous, it’s very expensive, and ISIS
shouldn’t have been even allowed to form, and the people
will stand up and give me a massive hand. You know they
thought it was bad that I was getting along with Putin
or that I believe strongly if we can get along with
Russia that’s a positive thing. It is a great thing that
we can get along with not only Russia but that we get
along with other countries.
JOSEPH KAHN,
managing editor: On Syria, would you mind, you said you
have a very strong idea about what to do with the Syria
conflict, can you describe that for us?
TRUMP: I can only
say this: We have to end that craziness that’s going on
in Syria. One of the things that was told to me — can I
say this off the record, or is everything on the record?
SULZBERGER: No, if
you want to …
TRUMP: I don’t
want to violate, I don’t want to violate a …
SULZBERGER: If you
want to go off the record, we have agreed you can go off
the record. Ladies and gentlemen, we are off the record
for this moment.
[Trump speaks off
the record.]
TRUMP: Now we can
go back on.
SULZBERGER: I’m
going to play the cop here. We’ve got only two and a
half minutes left, because they have a hard stop at 2.
And by the way, I want to thank you again, on behalf of
all of us …
TRUMP: Thank you.
SULZBERGER: … for
this meeting, and really I mean that. We are back on the
record. Maggie, you get the last question.
TRUMP: Is he a
tough boss, folks? Is he tough?
HABERMAN: I have
two questions, very, very quickly. One is your vice
president-elect left open the idea of returning to
waterboarding. You talked about that on the campaign
trail. I’m hoping you can talk about how you view
torture at this point, and also what are you hoping that
Jared Kushner will do in your administration and will
you bring him in formally?
TRUMP: O.K., O.K.
So, I didn’t hear the second question.
HABERMAN: Jared
Kushner. What will Jared Kushner’s role be in your
administration?
TRUMP: Oh. Maybe
nothing. Because I don’t want to have people saying
‘conflict.’ Even though the president of the United
States — I hope whoever is writing this story, it’s
written fairly — the president of the United States is
allowed to have whatever conflicts he wants — he or she
wants. But I don’t want to go by that. Jared’s a very
smart guy. He’s a very good guy. The people that know
him, he’s a quality person and I think he can be very
helpful. I would love to be able to be the one that made
peace with Israel and the Palestinians. I would love
that, that would be such a great achievement. Because
nobody’s been able to do it.
HABERMAN: Do you
think he can be part of that?
TRUMP: Well, I
think he’d be very good at it. I mean he knows it so
well. He knows the region, knows the people, knows the
players. I would love to be — and you can put that down
in a list of many things that I’d like to be able to do.
Now a lot of people tell me, really great people tell
me, that it’s impossible, you can’t do it. I’ve had a
lot of, actually, great Israeli businesspeople tell me,
you can’t do that, it’s impossible. I disagree, I think
you can make peace. I think people are tired now of
being shot, killed. At some point, when do they come? I
think we can do that. I have reason to believe I can do
that.
HABERMAN: And on
torture? Where are you — and waterboarding?
TRUMP: So, I met
with General Mattis, who is a very respected guy. In
fact, I met with a number of other generals, they say
he’s the finest there is. He is being seriously,
seriously considered for secretary of defense, which is
— I think it’s time maybe, it’s time for a general. Look
at what’s going on. We don’t win, we can’t beat anybody,
we don’t win anymore. At anything. We don’t win on the
border, we don’t win with trade, we certainly don’t win
with the military. General Mattis is a strong, highly
dignified man. I met with him at length and I asked him
that question. I said, what do you think of
waterboarding? He said — I was surprised — he said,
‘I’ve never found it to be useful.’ He said, ‘I’ve
always found, give me a pack of cigarettes and a couple
of beers and I do better with that than I do with
torture.’ And I was very impressed by that answer. I was
surprised, because he’s known as being like the toughest
guy. And when he said that, I’m not saying it changed my
mind. [An earlier version made a mistake in
transcription. Mr. Trump said “changed my mind,” not
“changed my man.”] Look, we have people that are
chopping off heads and drowning people in steel cages
and we’re not allowed to waterboard. But I’ll tell you
what, I was impressed by that answer. It certainly does
not — it’s not going to make the kind of a difference
that maybe a lot of people think. If it’s so important
to the American people, I would go for it. I would be
guided by that. But General Mattis found it to be very
less important, much less important than I thought he
would say. I thought he would say — you know he’s known
as Mad Dog Mattis, right? Mad Dog for a reason. I
thought he’d say ‘It’s phenomenal, don’t lose it.’ He
actually said, ‘No, give me some cigarettes and some
drinks, and we’ll do better.’
SULZBERGER: So, I,
with apologies, I’m going to go to our C.E.O., Mark
Thompson, for the last, last question.
TRUMP: Very
powerful man …
MARK THOMPSON:
Thank you, and it’s a really short one, but after all
the talk about libel and libel laws, are you committed
to the First Amendment to the Constitution?
TRUMP: Oh, I was
hoping he wasn’t going to say that. I think you’ll be
happy. I think you’ll be happy. Actually, somebody said
to me on that, they said, ‘You know, it’s a great idea,
softening up those laws, but you may get sued a lot
more.’ I said, ‘You know, you’re right, I never thought
about that.’ I said, ‘You know, I have to start thinking
about that.’ So, I, I think you’ll be O.K. I think
you’re going to be fine.
SULZBERGER: Well,
thank you very much for this. Really appreciate this.
TRUMP: Thank you
all, very much, it’s a great honor. I will say, The
Times is, it’s a great, great American jewel. A world
jewel. And I hope we can all get along. We’re looking
for the same thing, and I hope we can all get along
well.
© 2016 The New
York Times Company
Betsy Devos, billionaire
philanthropist, picked as Trump education secretary:
Her brother is Erik Prince, the founder of Blackwater.
DeVos is a strong advocate of vouchers for private and
religious schools
DeVos family foundations reported
lifetime charitable giving of more than $1.2 billion.
Political donations — to oppose gay marriage, support
vouchers, and sway lawmakers from increasing oversight
to charter schools — came on top of that.
Nikki Haley to be Trump's
ambassador to UN
:U.S. President-elect Donald Trump has picked South
Carolina Governor Nikki Haley, who was critical of him
during his election campaign and who has little foreign
policy experience, to be U.S. ambassador to the United
Nations.
5 things to know about Trump's
U.N. pick:
S.C. Gov. Nikki Haley: She vehemently spoke against
Trump on the campaign trail.
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